It's ***PRESIDENT*** Obama
(This has been split off from the previous thread to start a new one - Percy) Well, I guess that concludes this particular thread and heralds a new age fo the USA and the rest of the world. There is a sea change of attitude in the US, it is going to be very hard for people to accuse America of institutional racism after this. It was a cross-section of people, more white than black, that elected Obama, this should not be a divisive presidency, as would have been guaranteed with McCain, but an inclusive one. Now we have to wait and see whether Obama is up to the task and I, for one, wish him all the luck in the world. Whatever happens over there directly affects what happens here. I had to laugh at Brown last night, saying that he looked forward to working with Obama over the coming months and years... I think he meant weeks and months!

Just because you don't like Obama doesn't mean he isn't the best choice. I don't particularly "Dislike" Obama anymore than I do any other politician: generally, I distrust them as a breed. I shall now await the first examples of expediency, as after January and all the Razz a Mataz is over and the reality kicks in. Obama talks a good talk: yet so do chat show hosts. We'll see.

What message do you think that calling him Obummer all the time sends out then? He hasn't done anything, other than to be extremely eloquent (for an American he has been a shining example for the rest of his compatriots) and dedicated. My respect has grown for him over the last three months and the least he deserves is to get a clear run at what is in front of him. I do not liken this to Bliar when he was elected because somehow Bliar made my skin crawl then... how right I was not to be taken in. Obama is different, his challenges are 10x greater than Blair's were. If he rises to the challenge and doesn't behave like the typical politician that I do not believe he is then he has an opportunity to change the face of the world... at least the civilised world... no fucking hope for the Islamic word though, no matter what!

Interesting breakdown of the voters on this link, Obama now has to live up to the faith that has been put in him. Free from the encumbrances of corporate ownership I hope that he doesn't make too many mistakes.

One final thing that I sincerely hope for: that the blacks will stop being niggas and wearing sideways baseball caps and stupid long baggy shorts. If they want to drag themselves out of the gutter then they need to emulate Obama and start behaving like they don't belong there.

Tony has said most of what can be said about this truly historic result. People from every demographic voted for Obama, they voted for change and they voted to reject the Republican party of George W. Bush - possibly the most unpopular US president ever. I was amazed when Obama beat Hillary Clinton and impressed by his coolness during the campaign to win the Presidency. Expections are high, probably much too high. However in one of the most difficult periods of US history in living memory, the country and the world needs someone who can carry people with them. Time will tell if that man is Barack Obama.

I used to quite like America. I hate what is has become. That said I don't live there and thus what Americans do to each other is in honestly little concern of mine. It only becomes my concern when America's actions impact upon me and mine. Irrespective of one's hopes for a Fresh Start and a New, New Deal, US politics has become an awfully corrupted affair. America and venal Americans have single-handedly done their level best to wreck the global finance system: the impact of their venality and malfeasance is going to impact upon all of us here in Europe. For some considerable time to come. As Alistair Cooke said many years ago "The trouble with Britain is that we have imported all the worst things from America: and few if any of the good!" That comment is perhaps truer today than ever before. My denigratory comments about Obama, Tony are based simply on the core reality that he is a politician: worse, he stands for many if not all, of the idiot American liberal concepts such as Gay Marriage, whatever that means; and a host of other problematic political see saw ideology, including gun control. Which will really upset the NRA and a raft of US citizens! America and Americans have never been particularly liked in the rest of the World: envied perhaps, yes; but not liked. Since Bush and the arrogant stupidity emanating from a large proportion of US citizens over Iraq, Afghanistan and Bush's imaginary war on "Terrah", our World has become a highly dangerous place, thanks to US and UK troops being utilised in the service of Big Oil in both theatres, yet paid for by the taxpayer! And much of the World now simultaneously hates and despises America and Americans. A country, in the main, populated by people of arrested development. The spread of Americanisms has irritated many people, myself included: this has been very apparent in terms of BBC TV Coverage of this election: presenters and commentators vying to use as many crass Americanisms as possible: Bell Weather state: shoo in; etc. This is England and that's where I live. Sadly, the whole carnival has been treated by the idiot media as if it was a different version of celebrity prancing or get the advertisers to pay Simon Cowell's recruitment bill: as well as chucking hum millions at the same time! It isn't: it's about a pariah nation state that has illegally invaded another nation state on a series of false premises in order to steal its natural resources: and if that wasn't enough, a state which has single handedly tried its best to wreck the global finance system and run the World's economies into depression. If and when Obama publicly apologises to the rest of the World for America's actions (which BTW make Bush- Chenney- Rumsfield - Blair and many others chargeable under International Law under the Nuremberg Principles as War Criminals), then he will have my respect. It would also help, of course, if America actually became members of the International Court! Which they strongly resist! I wonder why? However, I fear from past misplaced hopes in politicians once January comes it will be the same old expediences with just a few sops thrown to his voters and supporters: together with bundles of excuses. Pardon me for not becoming excited! :roll: Still, no doubt now this is all but over it's back to football and celebrities la-*test*-('") doings, spewings and screwings instead. Wow! Can't wait................................ :(

Not a nice world when you feel that there is no hope. I'm glad I'm not in it. There is no doubt about the criminal nature of Bush/Cheney/Bliar, but in keeping with having an open mind and NOT making sweeping judgements, I do believe that Obama has a mandate to be different. He has pledged to be different and now he is going to get the opportunity to BE different. You accused him yesterday of taking big donations from corporate America and that he would have debts to pay. You were wrong. Totally wrong. Here's an extract from the Slate, please feel free to read the whole thing though, it is worth it.: 4. Increase disclosure and transparency. Obama founded his campaign on removing the influence of special interests. "They have not funded my candidacy, and they will not run my White House," he has said repeatedly. To match this message immediately, Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics, has a tidy little to-do list for the candidate who has promised unsurpassed ethical standards: Disclose donors who gave less than $200. Disclose the amounts and professions of bundlers who helped him raise gargantuan sums. Disclose donors to his "Obama Transition Project." Disclose immediately online those who give to the inaugural committees. Promise not to raise funds anonymously for the presidential library until the end of his term. If Obama has lied about this then he is adding more poison to the chalice. I don't believe for one second that he has and I believe that he is in a unique position to make good on his promises. It would behove anyone to suspend cynicism and judge him on what he does, not on what others have done before him.

If and when Obama publicly apologises to the rest of the World for America's actions (which BTW make Bush- Chenney- Rumsfield - Blair and many others chargeable under International Law under the Nuremberg Principles as War Criminals), then he will have my respect. Why should he apologise for something that he vehemently objected to BEFORE the invasion of Iraq? To make that a condition to gain your respect, PS, is unreasonable to say the least, if not ridiculous.

I said earlier that Americans voted for change and they did so in significant numbers. I would also like to add that America ITSELF has changed. In purely racial terms the American electorate is less white than it's ever been since the country became independent in 1776. Immigration will increase this tendency and within our lifetimes, possibly, whites could find themselves in a minority in the USA. American politics will be transformed by this new demographic reality.

Sorry Tony: omitted to reply to this. Not a nice world when you feel that there is no hope. I'm glad I'm not in it. I adopt a position of expecting the worst of politicians and societies: that way when the normal happens then I'm not disappointed. If by chance and rarely, something positive occurs, then I am pleasantly surprised! Being totally realistic, the last Democratic President who tried to a degree to change the corruption of America which has persisted since Tamany Hall, didn't last over-long before big business and the Mafia knocked him off. And behind the pisaz, JFK and his family were not in fact very nice people: his father Joe was a Mafia attached bootlegger and telegrammed Roosevelt that he wanted to come home when US Ambasador to the Court of St. James's, basis "The limey's are finished!" at the beginning of WWII and the blitz.

Funding: The nuclear industry is one of the biggest employers in his state. The bill that he proposed to tighten regulations was first of all watered down by Republicans and then not passed into law. Since when was that his responsibility. That would be the same as moaning that your MP failed to get legislation through the H of C! As for the funding, that was a lame association. Firstly, the donations were largely to do with congressional elections and that was some time ago. Secondly, while $269,000 is a lot of money it is a pittance compared to the money he raised for his presidential campaign. You suggestion that he "didn't pro-*test*-('") overmuch" is disingenuous. When he was in an overwhelmed minority, just what do you think he should have done? Tarred, feathered and tied himself to a lamppost outside the White House?

Then suspend your cynicism, open your mind to what might be, and, as you say it won't affect you and yours, sit back and observe the positive side of what has happened. I am looking forward to going back to the US next year and, hopefully, feeling the difference. Give him a chance and stop presuming the worst. The worst possible thing would be if he becomes another JFK.

Since Pelosi became Speaker how vehement have the Dems been against the Iraq fiasco: and worse, the probable Trillion US$ this has cost? And the corruption with such as Blackwater, KBR/Halliburton et al. Have the Dems forced a Congressional Investigation into the allegations? er nope. Prof. Joseph Stiglitz book, Trillion Dollar War tabulates much of the reality. And as a leading University Prof (Columbia) and a Nobel prize winner, he's probably a rough idea of economics. At least both Robin Cook and Clair Short resigned over Iraq. No other bugger did: they were too anxious for their turn at the trough! So, I'll remain pessismistically optimistic. :)