Israel: sixty years on Although the media have mentioned this anniversary, there hasn't been the big hullabaloo (for and against) I expected.
Unless someone tells me otherwise, subdued is the word I would use, at least in this country.
I expect a big deal has been made in Isreal and the US and, for the opposite reason, in some Middle East countries.
I stuck this article on my Civil Liberty website to mark the occasion and, hopefully, spark some debate on here.
http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/newsdetail.php?newsid=369
Is anyone aware that 100 leading British Jews, led by Harold Pinter have signed a statement decrying Israel as a state which commits ethnic cleansing and genocide?
And terrorism?
All 100 refuse to celebrate this anniversary and state that they will not celebrate until Jew and Arab in Palestine live in harmony and peace.
The letter penned by Pinter was in your favourite rag on Wednesday, Jack.
I read the text in France last week, when a dear friend, an activist for restoration of Palestinian rights gave me the text and list of signatories.
Text of letter and list of signatories here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_British_Jews_on_60th_anniversary_of_Israelhttp://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=100+leading+British+Jews+Israel&meta=
Tony- 05-15-2008
state that they will not celebrate until Jew and Arab in Palestine live in harmony and peace.
They are deluded. It won't happen until Israel is destroyed and that isn't going to happen either.
Philosopher's Stoned- 05-17-2008
I hardly think that some of Britain's brighest academics, writers and achievers are deluded, Tony!
They merely state that they will not celebrate.
Personally, I do believe that the current fasicst regime in Israel will soon be brought to task: by the lack of ability of their patron, America to support them anymore.
If not then one can expect global nuclear war.
Which will of course neatly solve the over-population problem....................
Tony- 05-17-2008
The implication is that they WILL be celebrating.
However, if your prognostication is correct and that there will be nuclear meltdown, centring on Israel then the academics will never be celebrating. I therefore stand by my comment that they are indeed deluded.
The main reason is that even if a two state solution is arrived at it will not lead to harmony. Israel cannot give up Jerusalem and the Palestinians will NEVER be satisfied until they possess it free of Jews.
All that will happen is that the more the muslims get (and that is not just Palestinian muslims) the more they will want. No sooner the two state situation is arrived at, the fanatics will set about destroying the Israeli part.
Yep. Totally deluded. There is no permanent peaceful solution to the problem.
Philosopher's Stoned- 05-18-2008
Palestinians are not just Muslims, Tony.
That's a convenient error of the media and pols such as Bush.
There are a large number of Christian Palestinians too.
Their homes, businesses, farms and possessions were forcibly confiscated with no compensation> many of them were extremely wealthy. I've met a number.
And just like European Jews who campaigned for many years for compensation from Swiss banks for assets sequestrated by the Nazis, these "White" Palestinians will continue their fight for adequate redress.
The problems with Israel aren't as simple as the media, and British and US pols make them out to be.
And there is already significant accord between the Coptic Church, Pro-*test*-('")ant and Catholic Christians and the Muslims over access to the holy parts of Jerusalem. It's only the current mob of Israeli hawks who refuse any compromise. Many leading Rabbis and deeply devout Jewish leaders support such compromise.
At present, it suits the Americans to support the increasingly unpopular martially minded Israeli government and military, as an imagined counter to Arab ambitions, since Israel is the only Mid East state with a nuclear deterrant. That's why the US is increasingly paranoid over the Iranian and Jordanian reactors.
However, America cannot, just because of its oil and gas industry, continue with this rapidly failing balancing act between Saudia and Israel and the rest of te Arab and non-Arab Middle East (such as Iran).
Anymore than the Israelis can maintain their genocide and ethnic persecution of non-jews for much longer: even their own population are rapidly becoming tired and dispirited as a pariah race.
As the older Ashkenazi East European political leaders and their influence die out, the young are increasingly divorced from the holocaust and WW II, hence their political fatigue.
Tony- 05-19-2008
Palestinians are not just Muslims, Tony.
That's a convenient error of the media and pols such as Bush.
There are a large number of Christian Palestinians too.
I didn't say that they were all muslims, I generally referred to muslims and then specifically to Palestinian muslims. The main reason for that is that even if the Palestinian muslims were to accept a deal it would be inevitable that the Pakistani, Saudi and other fundamentalist nutters wouldn't. The 'fight' would go on.
It is unlikely that the Palestinian Christians, only about 3% of the total, would be a problem under any circumstances.
Tony- 05-19-2008
It is all very well for you to say that there is an agreement between the churches and muslims, but who are the 'muslims' you refer to? There is no leader of the religion, it is a free-for-all. It is an absolute fact that the people who would cause the biggest problem are those who have adopted Palestine as a cause and they are not in on the discussions you refer to.
If the muslims take control of Jerusalem it would be the end of the middle east as a living environment - there is too much to lose on all sides for that to happen.
I have to be absolutely honest, no bullshit, I did get it right. Partly because Brown's father was a Scottish pro-*test*-('")ant preacher and it made sense for it to be him as it clearly was a non-Jew.
As I read down the article I had a feeling that someone else was going to creep into it, but there it was.
There is no doubt that the Jews do hold, on average, higher positions in life than ay other group of people and there are many reasons for it. Their work ethic and their ability to look after one another is foreign to many people but also driven by the way they have been persecuted over the last 2000 years or more.
Hmm, how about a new thread, in Off Topic.
